Tag Archive | KJV

Fixed v Flux

Codex Vaticanus, XXI Targi Wydawców Katolickich 2015-05-03 0012

Rev. Matthew Winzer:

“The historian can only tell you “how” things happen; he cannot tell you “why” they happen. The explanation why one chain of events occurred and another did not is traced back to one’s philosophy of history, and that philosophy is often influenced by tradition and emotion among other things. Discerning the text of Scripture includes historical factors, and this is true regardless of which text one decides on. Besides, the very idea of the Word of God touching someone’s life is going to have an emotional element to it.

When it comes to this so-called “critical text,” I would point out that it is not an actual text. It is an idea that is developed in opposition to the received text. The received text is a fixed text. The so-called “critical text” is in a state of flux. It differs from one scholar to another. Nor does it claim to be an exact copy of the original. It is at best a reconstruction with a degree of “probability.” At the end of the day, not one word of this critical text can be proven by empirical evidence to be the word of God.”

Source: http://www.puritanboard.com/showthread.php/86687-Text-Tradition-of-New-Testaments, Comment #10


Translation Troubles

Bibles at the Skt Paul Church in Aarhus Denmark

I can understand why my unbelieving family members and friends have trouble knowing and believing what the Bible actually says when they are confronted with confusion like this:

Psalm 7.11 (YLT): God ‘is’ a righteous judge, And He is not angry at all times.

Psalm 7.11 (KJV): God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

Source: http://www.puritanboard.com/showthread.php/7405-Did-GOd-love-Hitler-Does-He-love-Charles-Manson, Comment #3

Or this:

Matthew 20:22 (ESV): Jesus answered, “You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I am to drink?” They said to him, “We are able.”

Matthew 20:22 (KJV): But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.


Mark 9:49 (ESV): For everyone will be salted with fire.

Mark 9:49 (KJV): For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

Source: http://www.puritanboard.com/showthread.php/84468-Verse-differences, Comment #1

Or this:

Genesis 27:39-40 (KJB): thy dwelling SHALL BE the fatness of the earth

Genesis 27:39-40 (NIV): Your dwelling will be AWAY FROM the earth’s richness

Genesis 27:39-40 (NASB, ESV): AWAY FROM the fertility of the earth shall be your dwelling


2 Kings 23:29 (KJB): “In his days Pharaoh-nechoh king of Egypt WENT UP AGAINST the king of Assyria to the river Euphrates: and king Josiah went against him; and he slew him at Megiddo, when he had seen him.”

2 Kings 23:29 (NKJV, NIV, NET): “In his days Pharaoh Neco king of Egypt WENT TO THE AID OF the king of Assyria, to the River Euphrates; and King Josiah went against him, And PHARAOH NECHO (Footnote – literally ‘he’) killed him at Megiddo when he confronted him.”


Jeremiah 51:3 (KJB): LET the archer BEND his bow

Jeremiah 51:3 (ESV): Let NOT the archer BEND his bow


Hosea 10:1 (KJB): Israel is an EMPTY vine

Hosea 10:1 (NASB): Israel is a luxuriant vine




Source and read more: http://brandplucked.webs.com/biblebabel1.htm

Yes, I am aware that there are textual issues underlying the different translations.  However the plethora of English translations, in my experience, makes witnessing to unbelievers more difficult and adds to their confusion.  The more that different translations are consulted, the more work the reader has to do to figure out what God actually says, which places the reader in the position of determining what the actual word of God is since contradictory statements can’t all be right.  This is hard enough for a believer, let alone an unbeliever or new believer.  Not everyone has the time or ability to wade through the textual issues for each verse in order to properly understand the Bible.

Consider these words of David Engelsma:

“Third, preachers weaken the people’s trust in the reliability of the Bible which they use when they so often and so casually say, “The reading of the KJV is wrong; the better reading is…” I find evidence of mistrust when, in a debate in a Bible study class, a member will say, “Maybe the Greek is different,” or, somewhat cynically, “Probably, the original has something else.””

Source: APPENDIX: THE ENGLISH TRANSLATION OF HOLY SCRIPTURE to the article, “Modern Bible Versions,” in the section, “The Issue of the Greek Text of the New Testament”

Have you found that different translations have caused confusion amongst unbelievers or new converts?  If so, how have you helped them figure out which translation is “correct” regarding any given verse?  How many translations should people be expected to consult when reading the Bible? How can Bible readers “know” with any degree of certainty what God actually said?

~1 Corinthians 14:33 (KJV): For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace…~

Has God Indeed Said?

An excellent article on textual criticism and the preservation of the New Testament:

1631 KJV New Testament titlepage 2Has God Indeed Said? The Preservation of the Text of the New Testament

by Phillip G. Kayser, Ph.D. and Wilbur N. Pickering, Ph.D., Biblical Blueprints, Omaha


HT: http://www.puritanboard.com/f63/why-should-i-use-kjv-86624/, Comment #2

Is Modern Textual Criticism Reliable?

HT: http://www.puritanboard.com/f63/modern-textual-criticism-reliable-75469/

The Expurgated Version

Via Free Canuckistan:



Julius Wellhausen

Thing is, saith Binks, such edits depend on a teeteringly tall stack of assumptions about the Bible, and Julius Wellhausen-style ‘onwards and upwards progression’ arguments. I am no expert, and am instinctively suspicious of experts, and expertism in general. Partly because of problems like this:

“Wellhausen’s method is clear and straightforward. Every passage that fits his theory is authentic; all others are forgeries.”

Read more: http://steynian.wordpress.com/2014/06/17/the-expurgated-version/

Erasmus Rejected Vaticanus

Uncial 059 (Gregory-Aland)

A portion of the Greek Uncial MS. Codex Vaticanus, from the Vatican Library. Mark ends at 16:8.

“Reverend Winzer is most correct here as to the Assembly’s being fully aware of the Vaticanus manuscript. I am preparing a book right now, answering James White’s book The King James Only Controversy. White makes the silly claim that, had Erasmus known of the Vaticanus manuscript, he would have used its readings.

I prove that entirely wrong. Erasmus references the Vaticanus manuscript in the Preface to his 1535 edition of the Textus Receptus, and he condemns it. 350 readings from it were made available to him, and he rejected it on the ground that it did not follow the Scripture citations of the orthodox fathers like Chrysostom, Gregory Nazianzus, and Gregory of Nyssa. I cite Erasmus’ own remarks in my book. I might add that John Owen cites the Vaticanus manuscript as well, in his book defending the integrity of Ecclesiastical manuscripts of the Hebrew and the Greek: namely, the Textus Receptus and the Masoretic Text. With respect to the Greek text: Erasmus strongly favoured the text that was supported by the Cappadocian Fathers. But he also amended it to follow minority readings in the Textus Receptus stream, where the overwhelming majority of Latin manuscripts favoured that reading – as is the case with Acts 8.37.”

~ Al Hembd, Trinitarian Bible Society, Jerusalem, Israel

Source: http://www.puritanboard.com/f63/only-perfect-translation-70942/index2.html, Comment #73

The Value of the KJV’s Singular/Plural Distinctions


John 3:7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

“On the singular/plural distinction, the Gospel of John would be the best place to demonstrate its necessity. Nicodemus was told, YE must be born again. The modern born-again Christian phenomenon is built on the misunderstanding that the individual was the referent. The woman of Samaria said to Jesus, YE say… In modern versions it reads, YOU say, and a reader assumes the referent is Jesus, which would be an error. When Jesus speaks to the disciples he repeatedly addresses one but makes reference to all. This also appears significantly in the other Gospels. The Epistles also include numerous places where the plural is essential to the proper understanding of the letter. In cases where the Epistle is addressed to one person, as in Philemon and 2 and 3 John, a reader who is unaware of a distinction of the pronoun is left entirely in the dark as to the corporate relevance of these letters.”

Comment #52, Rev. Matthew Winzer, Australian Free Church, Victoria, Australia